Are "Marijuana Seeds Company Ratings" questionable...With Sunny's Response

Just a little page to air some views on "marijuana seeds ratings" pages and lists that have been popping-up here and there.
Last updated 22 JUL 98 by Anonymous
A RESPONSE BY SUNNY on 27 JUL 98
Sunny's response in bold

* A litle note to further explain the nature of this conflict:
CONSIDER: Who would be against quantified information about marijuana seedbanks ?
1. Law Enforcement
2. Anti-Marijuana contingents
3. Ripoff Seedbanks who face exposure and loss of funds.

It all started a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... well really, in the newsgroup alt.drugs.pot.cultivation.

Unfortunately that newsgroup, like many others on the net, is often littered with nonsense. If you haven't seen it click here news:alt.drugs.pot.cultivation

(At the time of writing, there is said to be yet another new "newsgroup" as well, alt.cannabis.seedbanks )
(Sunny)=Yes, the Spammers feel the need to actually controll a newsgroup

We used to read alt.drugs.pot.cultivation for marijuana seeds reports but have now mostly given up. There's too much "Spam".
(Sunny)= SPEAK FOR YOURSELF, TROLL

Not the normal kind of spam, but a different kind.
(Sunny)= Like the kind I am responding to here.

Normally newsgroup "Spam" is advertising messages from companies trying to get you to buy products from them.

In alt.drugs.pot.cultivation it goes a different way - anonymous people claiming to be independent and trying to persuade you to get your seeds from some companies instead of others.
(Sunny)= Actually trying to keep people from getting ripped off. These people are the same ones who daily respond to other's questions about how to grow weed.

Little messages like "That seedbank ripped my mate off".... "marijuana seeds delivered in 2 hours from this seedbank!" "XXXseedbank is LEGITIMATE".... "Don't buy from this seedbank, buy from this one here instead"... etc., etc., etc. for ever more, till the world ends, that newsgroup and any others like it, are probably going to be spammed.
(Sunny)= No 'Regulars' engage in these types of comments.

Will it ever end?
(Sunny)= It will if this TROLL will go away.

Probably not. It seems to be getting worse, but recently, more crafty.... with the spammers putting "real-looking" names, into their (totally anonymous and untraceable) messages, and building their spam into message-threads with subject titles not directly related to their "promotional" writings.
(Sunny)= It got worse after a couple of supposed 'seedbanks' got downgraded for bad business practices. Beeoo's was not listed because of the legal questions surrounding his 'American Seedbank'.
(*** At this date, April, 22, 1999 Beeoo's is history and was found out to be a non-delivering seedbank***)

This gives the overall impression that the newsgroup has genuine content, however, as soon as you start trying to read the messages.... you may begin to get the impression that all is not what it seems, and that many people putting up the anonymous messages are really just dodgy seed-traders in disguise. It is our impression from that newsgroup, that the majority of the seedbank-related posts are immensely devious and pathetic "spams" designed to create market confidence in the companies of spammers.
(Sunny)= There may be many false seedbank reports sent in. Ther are usually no problems getting product from seedbanks with favorable ratings from 'greenman'

About a year ago there was somebody (anonymous) called "Ganjaman's" which was supposed to be "rating" different seedbanks.
(Sunny)= This is True.

They setup a web-site which was heavily "Promoted" in the newsgroup alt.drugs.pot.cultivation and also on Bulletin Boards all over the internet. The bulletin boards were plastered with messages encouraging people to go for "Ganjaman's seed ratings" pages. Some called this "spamming" too, but it was impossible to tell, because the messages were anonymous.

The "ganjaman" web page had a list of seedbank companies, with little pictures of seeds after each one.

The seedbanks that were supposed to be "better" or "good" got more little pictures of seeds after their names, than the ones that were supposed to be "worse" or "bad".

Well now right at the top of this list appeared a site called "Jock's" seedbank.

This seedbank was given the top marks and even had a message saying to readers:

"All seeds excellently priced, highly recommended... Same day service. Tell him "Ganja Man sent me"."

Many hailed Ganjaman as a kind-hearted person who was doing the world a favour by giving his advice and thought that this really was a great place to buy your seeds.

Soon it seemed that some people were taking Ganjamans word as Gospel. Many people believed the Ganjamans ratings to mean that Jocks was the best seedbank in the world and sent money to Jocks for seeds. Some say they received their seeds. Other people say they didn't receive their seeds.
(Sunny)= I believe Jock always sent the seeds based on reports to ADPC. Do you have PROOF of anything to the contrary?

Sooner or later people got round to thinking that perhaps everything wasn't as simple as it looked.

Questions were asked as to

The theory of the site was that people would send in anonymous e-mails as to "successful" or "failed" transactions with seedbanks.
It is our view that even with the best will in the world this would, obviously, be totally impossible. Because the anonymous e-mails coming into the site's "voting system" would themselves, obviously, be full of "Spam", in other words, false messages from traders trying to get their sites at the top of the list, just the same as most internet newsgroups have always been loaded with "Spam" messages.

After a while, questions were coming up here and there asking why some seedbanks were rated as "bad" when people said they had received good seeds from them, and why some seedbanks were rated as "good" when people said they were not getting their seeds at all.
(Sunny)= That post was one of the first spams from whoever is trying to run down the ratings system and it occurred long after the Gangaman person was gone

Various theories were considered on this issue:

1) Was the site run by law-enforcement?

2) Was the site a public-relations scam, intended to "soak up" complaints regarding seed sellers?

3) Another question began to circulate:
(Sunny)=In this TROLL's mind

The truth may finally have been exposed, with a large "Bang" for anybody who may genuinely have stated they had ordered from Jock's and gotten nothing, when.....

After some time, messages appeared on Usenet (alt.drugs.pot.cultivation) in "ganjaman's" name saying that there was a business deal going on, and that Ganjaman was getting commission (paid in seeds) from Jocks when people sent money to Jocks after seeing his name on Ganjaman's "seed listing" site. (They could not really miss Jock's, it was, after all, at the top of the list, with the most little seed pictures after it, and a special report from Ganjaman that Jock's was "highly recommended", and to "Tell him "Ganja Man sent me")
(Sunny)=If you'll look at the ratings, you'll see that Jock's, while having a very good delivery rating, does get downgraded for 'speed of delivery'.

Messages subsequently appeared also, on the newsgroup, in the name of "Jock", which said that this was True!

Now there are new sites popping up called "Sunnys Seedbank Shortcuts" and "Greenman". Not only on the spam-filled newsgroups but on the web too. If you want to buy seeds there is no shortage of "advice".
(Sunny)=The reason I put up my page was that Gangaman was no longer around. If you don't want to believe this, make up a story of your own.
The newsgroups and chat forums are full of anonymous people who will tell anybody who will listen all about this company being better/faster/more reliable than another which they say is allegedly worse/slower/less reliable.
(Sunny)=The chat rooms are notorious places for that kind of crap. ADPC was relatively safe for a long time until this spammer, WHO REFUSES TO GIVE A NAME TO HIMSELF, started all these speculations

It is very easy to post anonymous messages to newsgroups which cannot practically be traced back to you.
(Sunny)=True(Click here to see how)

It's dead-easy to set yourself up with an anonymous address at somewhere like nym.alias.net and begin to infiltrate the net community under the cover of a "genuine guy". This is most true in newsgroups and chats where discussions of illegal activity may happen to occur.
(Sunny)=ONLY A COP WOULD WANT YOU TO POST IN THE CLEAR

Putting up a web page in your name and making a few news-postings here and there, soon establishes you with an internet presence, whomever you may be.
(Sunny)=True

It would be very easy to setup 5, 10, 20 or even 100 anonymous e-mail accounts, all at once! All in different names, and suddenly you would have an entire "gang" of invisible promotors! With such a gang of anonymous personalities, all operating under different names, you can give the impression of being a "community" of say 20 people, when really, there is only one of you, controlling all the different "personalities" (each of which is "really happy and satisfied" with your company" !!! ), and nobody can ever find out that this would really be a giant public-duping scam.
(Sunny)=That could be done easily at first. But over a period of several months, very few individuals are complex enough to carry it off.

More Questions:

A conclusion: Examining the implications of what some now call the "Jock & Ganjaman, Inc. profit-sharing seed-bunging affair"
(Sunny)=To the best of my knowledge, YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE SAYING IT. Of course, there are certainly more than enough sheep out there willing to listen and believe just about anything.

This page is the first, there probably will be more warning of the implications of the claimed "Jock & Ganjaman deal" in one way or another.

For a hypothetical unscrupulous seed trader who wants to spam-up his traffic to his site, or to his site(s), whilst taking the opportunity to put his competitors down a peg or two, one of the best ways of doing it might have been to start spamming the internet with "ratings" of seedbank companies.

No longer. We're on the case.
(Sunny)=Anyone can tell you are only one person; why do you keep saying WE?
Is it the multiple personalities you have that you are refering or what?

Don't believe anything anybody says to you on the internet unless it makes sense to you.
(Sunny)=I wholeheartedly agree.

A concerned hemper or a couple of thousand students.
(Sunny)=I'm an ole hippy and know a little about this last spam. If it were a couple of thousand students, Don't you think there would have been a much bigger stink? Heck, with not a lot more than that, we made headlines on every national publication and every television channel when we decided the war in V.N. was a bunch of crap.


References:

Here is a link to the first "Ganjaman" site. This seems nowadays to be abandoned. Some say the ratings seem to have "balanced" themselves out a bit, making them look less biased since:

A) The "seed-bunging affair"

B) The new "Greenman" appeared to have taken over from it, and started "rating" seed banks on anonymous e-mail "reports" instead of "Ganjaman"......

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/3291/

(If the above link goes down, try this one, it's a URL-forwarder for the site: http://www.ganjaseeds.home.ml.org )

We were going to post a link to the dejanews article in which the anonymous webmaster, "ganjaman@nym.alias.net" AKA "spacemanspliff " appears to admit he is taking seeds, or so he seems to claim (could it have been more likely cash?) from the "Jocks" seedbank at the top of his "ratings list". However, it seems to have either been cancelled off dejanews.com,
(Sunny)=Oh, How convenient; all this spew with no evidence. What a jerk!
or never archived there at all, perhaps due to the usage of "X-No-Archive=Yes" headers which prevent archiving, meaning messages can be here today, gone tomorrow forever. If you want the full text, why not go down to the newsgroup and ask. At least a few people may have it archived somewhere. Who knows, "Ganjaman" might do a comeback & re-admit the "situation" just for you.

The new Greenman page

Click here to see the new "listings" in operation!

http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/9863/seedbank.htm

You may notice that the new "Greenman's" ratings are a lot more varied than the old "Ganjaman" site now appears.
(Sunny)=What would you expect from a different person. Actually, thase pages are administered by a person called NPK, I think.

Here's another:

"Sunny's Seedbank Ratings" is/was an identical web-mirror version of the above that has just been kicked-off the Geocities web-server at the following URL:

http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Delta/7899/seeds.html

It has today (21st July 1998) relocated to this URL:

http://members.tripod.com/~bbop/seedbanks.html
(Sunny)=HOORAY, He finally got around to mentioning my site. He also kinda let the air out of his ballon. Do you think a cop would "get kicked-off the Geocities web-server?
Well, do you?

(Sunny)=Was also kicked off the tripod site :-(

If you take a look at the newsgroups, you'll also see the new "Greenman's ratings" are the ones now being "promoted" down there, amongst the hundreds of totally anonymous messages, in place of the long-abandoned "Ganjaman's ratings"
(Sunny)=There is nothing new about the ratings; They've been posted to ADPC since Janruary and many thousands of heads have used them to point themselves to a reliable seedbank.



Disclaimer: The above represents the views of an anonymous group of hempers, and may or may not represent the views of anybody else. We merely comment and pose legitimate concerned questions on various messages which have been observed by the authors in and around "A.D.P.C" [alt.drugs.pot.cultivation] which is a newsgroup. This newsgroup has recently been supplemented by another: "A.C.S" [alt.cannabis.seedbanks]. Because these newsgroup messages above referred to, are themselves anonymously posted, it is impossible to say with any degree of certainty, which message came from which person.
(Sunny)=Thank GOD this person FINALLY admits he REALLY doesn't know about any of this for sure.
Simply because a message appears to have been posted by a particular author, does not establish the identity of the sender. Therefore it is impossible for many, if any, of the questions above to ever be resolved for certain, due to the fact that all the characters referred to, can be identified only as anonymous e-mail addresses, out there somewhere.
(Sunny)=Please read this last line of his again.
This page is intended for information only, and only for those such as British and Dutch people who can legally buy/sell marijuana seeds under the laws of their countries, it is not intended to encourage anybody to do anything illegal. Marijuana cultivation remains illegal in many countries. This page may regularly be updated.
(Sunny)=If this is true, why do you spam for Beeoo's Spambank which purportedly will only sell to Americans??? Authors the2000students@hotmail.com are NOT interested in receiving "seedbank reports".
High there everyone who could wade through all that crap. I really hated to waste my time with exposing this Beeoo Spammer but I couldn't let it ride. I can promise you one thing though; Come on over to ADPC and lurk and read for a few months before you make up your mind. I don't think you'll have much respect for this kind of Spambank crap after you've had a chance to get an idea of who we really are. That said, the clock reads 4:18 and i've got a little something to do@;~)

Sunny